(0:00 – 0:19)
Hi everyone, I’m Dr. Michael Mantell with another edition of Family Law Matters with certified family law specialist, Bonnie Rabinovitch-Mantel, the founder and managing partner of the highly esteemed Primus Family Law Group. Hi, Bonnie. Hi, Michael.

(0:19 – 0:34)
How are you doing? Terrific. Still very warm here in San Diego, so we’re back inside today. Bonnie, I have had the privilege of sitting in on numbers of your Primus Family Law staff meeting.

(0:35 – 1:11)
One of the things that I heard not too long ago was your, I would say, fervent focus on the correct and assuring the correct outcome for clients as they see it, whether their agreements are negotiated or litigated. One of the questions that people have sent in, it’s around this notion of litigation or negotiation. Can you describe a couple of variables that help you determine whether you’re going to negotiate or litigate? Well, you know, we work for our clients.

(1:11 – 1:34)
I know that sounds strange, but remember while we’re running their case, they are our bosses, so it kind of depends on what they want to do. We try to encourage, we are required by the rules of professional ethics to encourage settlement. There is actually a family code section where you and your attorney can be penalized if you don’t promote settlement.

(1:35 – 1:46)
Instead, you promote litigation. So while Primus Family Law Group attorneys are all skilled litigators, we also want to settle your cases. These are highly emotional cases.

(1:46 – 2:07)
These are cases involving children and cases that can get expensive very quickly. So the quicker we settle or the better we settle, not the quicker, but the better we settle, the better it is usually for everybody involved. What do we look at? We look at whether a person’s willing to compromise.

(2:07 – 2:28)
If somebody walks in and they have a position and there’s no moving them from that position and you can’t get anything, you’re not going to have a choice but to take it to trial because sometimes some people just need to hear it from a judge. They want their day in court regardless. So that’s when we have no choice.

(2:29 – 2:44)
The other way is when the other side is doing that. Sometimes our client really does agree with us and want to settle, but no matter what we do, we can’t get the other side to the settlement table. That’s unfortunate.

(2:45 – 3:33)
But most often you’d be surprised that during this process, especially with this pandemic, Michael, where the delays in the court system and then it’s the, you know, every month that goes by, there’s stuff that can happen in your case to derail it. It makes people more willing to settle than wait till 2021 or 2022 to have that day in court. In terms of this negotiation or litigation mindset, someone asked the question, and I know you can’t answer it because you don’t have all the facts, but the person wants us to know, how do I decide whether I move out of the family home or my spouse should move out of the family home? The first question I tend to ask is, do you have somewhere else to go? Because sometimes one side has family members that may be able to take them in for a little while.

(3:34 – 3:54)
That way they can, you know, figure out which end is up. At least until we get either support orders or something that a person understands what’s going to be coming in and how they’re going to be able to manage. So that’s the first question we like to ask is, do you have somewhere else to go? It shouldn’t be an argument because you don’t lose your position in the house if you move out.

(3:55 – 4:01)
You just, two people can’t live together. If you have children, it’s better. Why don’t you leave? That’s the thing.

(4:02 – 4:09)
That’s what I think prompted this question. The concern about losing my position in the house. So just go through that again.

(4:09 – 4:16)
If you move out, what does that mean? It means you moved out. That’s it. It does not mean you lose your rights to the house.

(4:16 – 4:23)
It does not mean you lose your rights to the equity. It doesn’t mean any of that. The same way- How about, how about, what about, I’m sorry.

(4:23 – 4:51)
How about custody? Does it mean if I move, if I move out, I lose rights to the children? Well, sometimes when you move out and you have a family member, that family member may not have extra bedrooms for the children. So and it may be in the children’s best interest, depending on how old, time, place, all that, for them to stay in the house right now with whoever’s able to stay there. You do not abandon your children.

(4:51 – 5:01)
That doesn’t exist anymore. And you haven’t abandoned your property. The state would like people to get along as much as possible.

(5:01 – 5:13)
So if it’s going to be toxic for you to stay in the same place with your spouse and children, leave for the sake of the children. You will not lose your position. That’s very interesting.

(5:13 – 5:20)
That covers a lot of other questions. I think that there’s a mindset that if I leave the house, I lose the house. If I leave the house, I lose the kids.

(5:20 – 5:25)
And you’re saying that’s not, that’s not common anymore. That’s not an issue anymore. That isn’t.

(5:25 – 5:43)
And what’s interesting is the person who stays at home, they can be charged. I don’t mean charged, but they can be on the hook for paying the expenses because they’ve got the beneficial use of that property. So usually what happens is somebody really wants the house, the court will say, fine, you can have that.

(5:43 – 5:51)
You can have exclusive use and possession of the home, but you’re going to pay the mortgage, the property taxes, the insurance. You have to upkeep it. You’ve asked for this.

(5:52 – 6:09)
It’s yours. Now that may be the person who’s receiving support, or it may be the person who’s got the better ability to maintain those expenses because each side has a duty to the other to maintain their assets. So you can’t stay in the home and let it go into foreclosure.

(6:10 – 6:24)
That’s not going to be good for you either. And the court also doesn’t like it if the person who’s with the children at home doesn’t share just because the other parent happens to be outside of the house. That will all come up at court.

(6:24 – 6:42)
And so you can build your reputation with the judge very quickly by what you do. And judges remember you. If they don’t like what you’re doing, they believe what you’re doing is problematic or contrary to the best interests of the children, they will remember that.

(6:45 – 7:19)
Someone else wrote in relationship to this, can I kick my spouse out of the house if it gets too toxic? Well, that depends on the definition of toxic. If you need to have police intervention, if you need a restraining order to get your spouse away from you, yes, we can get formal kickout orders as well. If it’s an argument between how do I just get them out, you have to, you know, some people often just split.

(7:19 – 7:46)
If they won’t leave, they have to make do. And another question on the same topic. Can you describe or explain what supervised visitation is where there’s a concern about the negative impact that one parent is having on the children? If the court orders supervised visitation, that is not something that can be implemented unilaterally.

(7:46 – 8:09)
If you have concerns, then you need to go to court and get a court order. So there’s court ordered supervised visitation, which is the highest level is it’s with a professional that gets paid an hourly rate somewhere between $40 and $90 an hour to watch you with your child for a specific amount of time. It could be two hours, it could be eight hours.

(8:10 – 8:41)
And sometimes it could be at a facility like Hannah’s house does that. Others are supervised by a professional, but they go to a park or they can go somewhere that’s a little bit too normalcy. And then sometimes you can have supervised visitation with a third party who is not a professional, saves the party’s fees, but they have to fill out a specific form that binds them to follow the same rules that a professional would have to follow.

(8:41 – 8:55)
So the point is, is to be able to provide the court with a neutral report as to what’s going on. And obviously most people are on their best behavior when they’re supervised. Ingenuity and integrity.

(8:56 – 9:11)
That’s what the Primus Family Law Group under your guidance and experience brings to every single case. And you always want to make a positive and real difference in the lives of your clients. And with answers like this, we can see why you do.

(9:11 – 9:33)
If people want a free consultation, how can they be in touch with you to get some more information with you? Well, we do 30 minute free phone consultation. So all you have to do is call us at 619-574-8000 and our wonderful Malani will put you on my calendar or you can reach out to us. We have a form that you can fill out online at www.primusfamilylaw.com.