Family Law Matters – Episode 56 – Testifying against a parent

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(0:00 – 0:18)
Hi everyone, and welcome to another edition of Family Law Matters. I’m Dr. Michael Mantell. It’s always an honor to be with Bonnie Rabinovich-Mantel, who’s the owner and managing partner of the Primus Family Law Group, a family-oriented firm where experience meets results.

(0:19 – 0:26)
Hi, Bonnie. Hi, Michael, nice to see you today. Good to see you, and I understand we have another wonderful guest this week.

(0:26 – 0:40)
Once again, Kimberly has agreed to help us with this episode because so many things are going on in the world of family law these days that we just want to share. Hi, everybody. Hi, Kimberly.

(0:42 – 1:06)
Kimberly, you deal with a lot of kid issues. It’s one of your areas of specialty, and it’s a very trying and emotionally draining one, I know for sure. But one of the things that makes it particularly difficult is not so much what the kids bring, but what the adults do.

(1:07 – 1:33)
And what they often do is harmful emotionally to a child and to that child’s future life. You see some pretty heinous things. Without going into any particular description that might give away an individual client, of course, talk with us a little bit about what you see as problems that adults are doing in divorce that’s harmful to children.

(1:35 – 2:10)
What I see a lot is parents wanting to get a custody advantage, and I see them coaching their children to make up accusations or make up stories against the other parent in order to get that custody advantage. And what parents don’t realize when they do that is they’re harming that child. Not only are they taking an unfair advantage in court or in their custody battle, but they’re harming that child mentally.

(2:10 – 2:24)
They’re putting that child in the middle of this relationship, divorce, whatever it is, and that ultimately causes damage to the children. And the children don’t understand what’s going on. And then they’re torn.

(2:24 – 2:40)
They feel like they have to make mom happy and they feel like they have to make dad happy. And ultimately, it’s not good for litigation and it’s not good for this child’s wellbeing. Bonnie, we hear the term parental alienation commonly.

(2:40 – 3:25)
Is that what Kimberly’s talking about? You can have that situation where a parent is saying you don’t wanna like the other parent or we’re gonna take you away. And it can be done from small degrees, like just hearing your parent on the phone call the other parent names because they’re angry at them, where it’s not necessarily a complete intention to alienate. It’s just a by-product of the crap they hear all the way up to an actual intentional, you know, so far as making allegations of abuse or false allegations against the other parent that, you know, forget about the custodial advantage.

(3:26 – 3:39)
They fail to think about the broader effects. Somebody loses their job. You can have a restraining order, criminal charges, all of these things because they have to win.

(3:39 – 3:49)
That’s what it comes down to is because they have to win. And it’s our job, right? Kimberly to try to move them from that position of it. You’re not gonna win.

(3:49 – 4:03)
It’s not winning. It’s you got a co-parent, Kim. It’s never winning when you put your child in a situation where it’s going to harm them for whatever reason or intent that you’re doing it.

(4:03 – 4:18)
It’s never winning. Ultimately it’s the child’s best interest to have both of their parents involved. And ultimately their mental wellbeing and their mental health should come first out of anything else in the divorce or the separation.

(4:18 – 4:39)
How is it? How is it? Michael, now a second. We’re not talking about situations that are real where these heinous things are going on and yes, please bring them to light. We’re talking about people who are making up or exaggerating or helicoptering or, you know, every little thing is a large thing.

(4:40 – 5:03)
That’s what we’re trying to avoid. How is it that a couple gets married, has children and their goal is to raise these kids in as healthy a way as they can. And suddenly something goes wrong between the two adults and now they no longer really care about the wellbeing of those children.

(5:03 – 5:35)
They think they do, but in my work with clients, counseling, coaching, therapy, as I’ve done in the past, it’s clear that their needs come first. When you see that, you refer for therapy or counseling or something, coaching. I’ve seen a case, I’ve seen a couple of cases where, right now in fact, where mom and the child are seeing a therapist and the therapist is aligned with the mother against the father.

(5:35 – 5:53)
What do we do then? Well, if it’s in, Kimberly, go ahead. Well, I actually have a case like that right now. So you essentially do some sort of conjoined therapy with the other parent and the child that is a third, a neutral therapist.

(5:53 – 6:09)
That’s not, this is the one that they’re currently seeing. That’s generally what I suggest doing is starting to get some conjoined therapy or a third therapist involved. So they’re not aligned with the mother or one of the parents and then they can start to kind of evaluate the relationship between the child and then the father or the other parent.

(6:09 – 6:50)
What happens when the mother refuses to go see another therapist or the other way around? What happens when the parent who’s got this alignment, oh, I’m being protected by this therapist, says, I’m not going to see a third one. What do you do then? Well, unfortunately, you not only have where the parent will say no, you also have the child who says, I don’t wanna go see another therapist because the child’s now got one therapist that they’re comfortable with and they don’t wanna have to start all over and say it all over again. And is it even good? You know, there’s differing opinions, but that’s all in your purview of coaching and, you know, or therapists when they do their work.

(6:50 – 7:19)
What we have to do is we have to bring that to court and say, it’s not in the child’s best interest to not have a relationship with this parent. We have no evidence that it’s not in the child’s best interest, even in cases where there has been some abuse, real or feigned, you still wanna work to bring some closure. Maybe the parent is getting help for whatever triggers and the child so that you’re trying to get them both in back to the same place.

(7:20 – 7:29)
Unfortunately, that’s where you have to litigate and you have to get a third party to force these people to do what’s good for their children. Yeah. Good stuff.

(7:29 – 7:53)
This is a tough area, isn’t it, Kimberly? I mean, it does pull at you personally, doesn’t it? It does, yes. Well, I want people who are watching this to understand that this is not just a cold, clinical, professional, you know, set of steps. These are two very caring, very empathic professionals.

(7:53 – 8:19)
So if people wanna reach you and talk more about this, how can they do so? Well, you can always reach us at 619-574-8000, and we’ll certainly be glad to put you on either of our calendars for a consult to see how we can help you with your matter. And you can always reach us at www.primusfamilylaw.com. Our website has its own form you can fill out. Thank you both very, very much.

(8:19 – 8:32)
This was very insightful and I’m sure touched the hearts and concerns of many parents who are going through these kinds of issues. So for another edition of Family Law Matters, thank you very, very much. We’ll see you again soon.