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Hi everyone, I’m Dr. Michael Mantell. Welcome to another edition of Family Law Matters. I’m always privileged to be with Bonnie Rabinovitch-Mantel, who is the owner and managing partner of The Primus Family Law Group, a family-oriented firm where experience meets results.

Hi, Bonnie. Hi, Michael. How are you doing today? Doing great.

We have had the privilege and honor of having Kimberly Soule, one of your attorneys for the last couple of editions of Family Law Matters. Now it’s you and I. I thought we would talk today about something that is making headlines on celebrity news, but also in the area of family law. It seems that Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt, who are going through a very publicized divorce, have a situation where a number of the kids have said they will testify against Brad.

I can’t imagine how that is helpful for the kids or for the divorce, but you’re the divorce attorney, family law specialist. What do you think? Well, what’s interesting is there’s actually a statute that says when your children turn 14, they have a right to have a say. They have a right to have their opinion heard.

Now, most family law judges would tell you, I believe, that they are loathe to put any child on the stand because of the conflict, the harm, the detriment that creates. The issue could be, though, if these children are older, 16, 17. I know one of their children is actually an adult, so I don’t know if that’s one of the kids that’s included, but if we’re just talking about minors, under 18, there are other ways to get their opinion or their information other than putting them on the stand.

In San Diego, we’re what is called a recommending county, which means that we have family court services, counselors that are required to meet with the parties before custody and visitation is decided, and they have the ability to speak to the children depending on their age. And so that would be one way to keep these kids off the stand or having a, if they have to be heard, the judge can take them in chambers and have them speak that way. So it’s not having to get up on an actual witness stand and have questions thrown at you by an attorney about one of your parents.

What could be motivating these kids, I’m not sure their actual ages, to say, I want to come testify against Brad Pitt? Well, obviously I have nothing to do with this particular case, but in cases where children are willing to testify against one parent, it could be in situations of abuse. If children are witnesses, they have the right to say what they’ve seen in cases of in other cases, it could be a parent who’s coached this child to such an extent that we’ve talked about this before, where it’s a pattern of alienation and the child is so aligned with one parent that they’re perfectly willing to do whatever that parent says. And that’s one of the reasons why we don’t often suggest this course of action, because it does tend to make the parent who wants the child to testify to, you know, it’s hard not to say what you’re thinking or what you think the child should say.

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And often judges are left having to figure out if this child has been coached. So that’s why I said they’re less intrusive means it’s kind of like in the medical field. If you don’t need a lobotomy, you just need an aspirin.

You’re not going to go straight for the lobotomy. Let’s start with something less intrusive and see if we can’t resolve the issue that way. Well, Promise Family Law Group is well known for wanting to avoid unnecessary wars, moving clients through the process positively and as efficiently as possible.

If you had a opposing attorney tell you that his or her client has the kids want to come testify, would you suggest therapy or private meetings or what would you what would you do? Well, it depends on the reason why that child wants to testify. I have had a case where where one parent wanted their child to testify against the other parent. And I immediately I mean, that to me is running into court and saying, OK, show me give me what is called an offer of proof.

What is this child going to say that is so relevant as to create all this conflict and animosity and anxiety and possible harm to this child? What could be so important? And we put that before the judge and the judge can then say, yeah, no, I can do without it or we can get that testimony some other way or, yeah, I really need to hear it. But there’s always ways and steps that we can take to try to avoid that and at least leave it up to a judicial officer to determine the necessity. Bonnie, I’m going to put you on the spot here, and I know you don’t mind that because you’re always on the spot in your work.

Let’s suppose you come to learn something from that process that your client was doing and you didn’t know. And the child says, yes, mommy or daddy did this. And your client says no.

What what do you do as an attorney then? Thankfully, we have a lot of, I don’t know, I guess it’s not colleagues, but we’re a community. So if there is a child that’s making allegations and a parent says no, that didn’t happen, you can have what is called a 730 exam evaluator. It’s a person appointed by the court, so it could be a licensed clinical social worker or it’s an MD or it’s a PhD.

It’s usually a doctor who knows about custodial issues and they do an evaluation, be it a psychological evaluation or a custodial evaluation. They see all the parties. It can be a lengthy and expensive process, but they ferret out the truth.

So, you know, children say things, we expect them to be honest, but children can also are malleable. They can be coached. You want to believe your kids, but we all know kids, they can lie, even in the best circumstances, all children do lie.

So you want to get to the truth. If there is, if what they’re saying is true, you want to get them to help. If what they’re saying is false, you want to deal with why and get them to help.

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Exactly right. Well, summer’s upon us. And so let’s hope that this is a time for people to re-engage in the world again and chill out, relax, and give their kids a little bit of enjoyment before back to school.

And maybe a chance to rethink all of this turmoil that some may be putting their kids through. Bonnie, if people have questions about this or concerns, how do they reach you? They can always reach us at 619-574-8000. And they can have a free 30 minute phone consultation to see how one of our attorneys can help with their matter.

Or they can reach out online at www.primusfamilylaw.com. And there’s a form you can fill out online and we’ll reach right back out to you.