(0:00 – 0:17)
Hi everyone, I’m Dr. Michael Mantell with another edition of Family Law Matters with Bonnie Rabinovitch-Mantel, owner and managing partner of the famed Primus Family Law Group. Hi, Bonnie. Hi, Michael.

(0:17 – 0:39)
You know, you and I love doing this to give people out there a sense of what Primus does and what family law kind of looks like. But one thing we never talk about is the lawyers and the work that they have to do and the stress. And, you know, it’s the stress of being right and getting things right all the time.

(0:39 – 1:19)
So today I was thinking maybe since you are the foremost expert in all things mental health and do so much across the nation for professionals and regular lay folk alike, I thought I would turn it on you and ask, you know, what do you see in the professional world when it comes to managing the stress of having to be right all the time? Well, first of all, thank you very much for turning it around on me today and that gracious, those kind words you just shared. Two points I wanna make. One, that we don’t wanna manage stress.

(1:19 – 1:36)
What do you mean we don’t wanna manage stress, Dr. Mantel? Seriously. Why manage what you can prevent? Hold on to that point. The second point I wanna talk about is this notion of having to be right.

(1:37 – 1:47)
It’s this, the idea that one carries with oneself as a professional, I must get it right. I must be perfect. That’s a killer.

(1:48 – 1:58)
Look, my career has spanned almost 50 years. Over that time period, mistakes happen. You don’t get it exactly right.

(1:58 – 2:04)
That’s called doing the best you can. That’s what we aspire to. Being perfect, that’s a killer.

(2:05 – 2:28)
That’s what creates stress. Burnout today, burnout, emotional and physical exhaustion. The idea of lack of compassion, not having the energy or the drive to wanna do it anymore, the hallmarks of what psychological burnout are all about affects attorneys, affects physicians.

(2:29 – 2:45)
And we’re seeing more and more professionals say, I’m out, I’m done, I can’t do it anymore. So I believe, as you might imagine, I would say the link is what you think. Let’s tell ourselves healthy things.

(2:45 – 3:16)
Not I have to be perfect, but I wanna do the best I can for the people that I serve. Okay, so that’s an internal thing that you can do, but also you have now clients, right? Who are coming to you saying, I need this, you have to get me this, we need to win this. And you know, you and I have discussed on this forum and other ones about managing our clients’ expectations for themselves, for the reality of what happens in court.

(3:16 – 3:37)
But I think also a part of it is for our own self-care because they come to us with these expectations. I will tell you, I get several emails about how are we going to win? And what are we going to do to get the judge to see we’re right and they’re wrong? And that’s a lot. That is a lot.

(3:37 – 3:52)
And I mean, you talk about managing expectations. It’s important to try and reframe this notion of winning. What is winning? Divorce is the end of a marriage.

(3:53 – 4:03)
It’s not the end of life as Primus Family Law Group, I know holds up as a key approach to all of this. So yes, people wanna win. They don’t wanna be blamed.

(4:03 – 4:15)
They don’t wanna feel like they’re getting screwed in the end financially or with children or with property or whatever it may be. They want the best outcome they can get. And that’s what you wanna do.

(4:15 – 4:24)
Of course, that’s what you do. How do you manage that within yourself? Because it is all within yourself. Well, you remind yourself, of course, they want that.

(4:24 – 4:35)
And of course, I know the truth. So how can I help them understand that? Maybe I can. And then again, I can’t control what they come to understand.

(4:35 – 5:04)
I can only do the best I can. And from where I have sat in the offices of Primus Family Law Group, everyone, from the first person that you talk with on the phone to every attorney and paralegal and secretary, everyone aspires to simply do the best he or she can. Do you suggest, attorneys tend to be very alpha oriented.

(5:04 – 5:31)
We’re often very hard on ourselves. And I guess, is there a concern about seeing a professional therapist or a life coach to help you even though you’re supposed to be on the ball all the time? Absolutely. And one of the hallmarks are believing that things must be a certain way as opposed to let’s be realistic.

(5:31 – 5:38)
We prefer them to be that way. If you start thinking, this is horrible, I can’t stand it. That’s a good sign, you need some help.

(5:38 – 6:00)
Maybe not a psychiatric help, but certainly some basic rational thinking. Someone to teach you how to think differently. If you start labeling yourself, globally rating yourself, not as an attorney, not as a skill, none of your skills, but saying, I’m a loser, I’m not worthwhile, I’m no good.

(6:00 – 6:41)
That’s time to get some help as well. Again, not necessarily psychiatric help, but if you’re feeling anxious, truly anxious, I can’t go into court, depressed, I don’t wanna get out of bed, I don’t wanna go to work today, I don’t have it in me, or rageful, angry at your clients, please step back, get some help. Simple physical activity, breathing exercises, learning how to think about what you’re thinking about, that can go a long way in calming the situation, helping you get a grip on the way you’re putting it all together.

(6:41 – 7:07)
If anything’s gonna change, it’s gonna start with the way you’re perceiving and telling yourself what this situation is about. You know, it’s funny, I was thinking about how many people have these Fitbits and it’s supposed to help them, and then the anxiety that comes with the ding-ding during the day, because you’re supposed to get up or do something, I find it counterintuitive a little bit, personally. You used the word supposed to.

(7:08 – 7:17)
Right. There it is, there it is again. I’m supposed to do, now there are some things that as professional attorneys you do that are required, and those are requirements.

(7:17 – 7:35)
Those goals need to be met. But there’s a difference between it is ideal and best if I hit this goal, but sometimes something happens and you can’t. I’m not saying, gee, that’s wonderful, but strive for unconditionally accepting yourself.

(7:36 – 7:44)
Unconditionally accept a client who says, I’ve got to win. We understand that that’s what they think. We’re not gonna convince them otherwise.

(7:44 – 8:08)
We wanna help them gain the most they can out of their divorce process. So this is a call out to all of us other professionals. If you’re going through anything like this, or if you’re struggling to get up in the morning and do what you used to love to do, reach out to somebody like Dr. Mantell and get back to enjoying what was originally a calling for most of us.

(8:09 – 8:29)
Thank you. Thank you, Bonnie. If people wanna reach out to me, they can reach me at 619-743-2555 or Dr. Mantel, M-A-N-T-E-L-L, drmantellatme.com.