(0:00 – 0:15)
Hi everyone, welcome to another Family Law Matters. I’m Dr. Michael Mantel, joining Bonnie Rabinovich-Mantel, who is the owner and managing partner of the Primus Family Law Group here in San Diego. Hi Bonnie.

(0:16 – 0:27)
Hi Michael, how are you doing today? Doing well, we’re in San Diego, obviously, you know, America’s finest city, here we are. It’s a beautiful place to visit. Yeah, and to live.

(0:30 – 1:04)
Bonnie, this is a question that comes up in both of our practices, in my coaching practice and in your practice in family law. We deal with couples where one may be an abuser, physically or emotionally, but in some way harming the other partner. And yet, sometimes that abuser has such a narcissistic view that they believe, perhaps erroneously, we’ll hear about that, that they’re still entitled to spousal support.

(1:05 – 1:39)
Talk a little bit about this. Are abusers entitled to spousal support? Well, Michael, as in everything legal, it depends. There has been a change in the law that states that if there has been a finding of domestic violence or a restraining order is issued against a party, there is a presumption that that party shall not be entitled to spousal support so that the victim does not have to pay their abuser.

(1:40 – 2:00)
Now, when I say a presumption, everything that is a presumption in law can be overcome, can be rebutted if you’ve got strong enough evidence. But usually the court on the side of equity does not want a victim to have to pay their abuser. So the evidence that that person has is going to be required to be extremely strong.

(2:01 – 2:49)
Or they will allow the party to pay support, but then they will deduct things that have been paid by that party so that it kind of comes out, no, no. The equity is always, we don’t want our victims to have to pay their abuser. So what happens if one parent has been abusing a child? Can that child abusing parent, which may have led to the divorce for safety of the child, can that person claim spousal support? So if there is a finding of domestic violence against that person and the other party, the other spouse was a witness or is it part of the restraining order, the presumption applies in that situation as well.

(2:50 – 2:57)
So you don’t have to be the victim of it. A victim includes someone who’s witnessed it or heard it. So- Including a child.

(2:57 – 3:13)
Obviously the child, there’s no doubt about that. But there are case law that somebody was on the phone and hearing the abuse and that person was considered a victim as well. As for hearing it and the effect on you can be just as traumatic.

(3:14 – 3:28)
So a parent who abuses a child, generally speaking, will not be entitled to spousal abuse. Excuse me, to spousal support. So we never say generally speaking because there’s no generally speaking.

(3:28 – 3:34)
Right, I understand. I was looking for another way to say it. The abuser may not get spousal support.

(3:34 – 3:48)
Okay. I’m learning in law school here with you. Yes, well, you know, because we’ve also heard situations and Michael, we’ve talked about that where you walk into court with all of the facts and all of the law and it still doesn’t happen.

(3:49 – 4:04)
It’s very, it can be very frustrating because- Well, you bring focus and clarity. You bring focus, clarity and insightful thinking. And these traits lead you to make a real difference in the lives of your clients and their families.

(4:05 – 4:25)
So if people have questions and they want to chat with you about this or other related matters, how can they be in touch with you? Well, they can reach us directly at 619-574-8000. Or you can reach us online at www.primusfamilylaw.com. There’s a live chat agent. There’s a form.

(4:26 – 4:34)
There’s our wonderful receptionist and you can reach us and we will set you up for a free 30 minute telephone or Zoom consultation. See how we can help.